Legislature(1993 - 1994)

02/25/1993 04:00 PM House JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
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                     JOINT SENATE AND HOUSE                                    
                  JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEES                                
                        February 25, 1993                                      
                            4:00 p.m.                                          
                                                                               
                                                                               
  HOUSE MEMBERS PRESENT                                                        
                                                                               
  Rep. Brian Porter                                                            
  Rep. Jeannette James                                                         
  Rep. Pete Kott                                                               
  Rep. Gail Phillips                                                           
  Rep. Joe Green                                                               
  Rep. Cliff Davidson                                                          
  Rep. Jim Nordlund                                                            
                                                                               
  HOUSE MEMBERS ABSENT                                                         
                                                                               
  None                                                                         
                                                                               
  SENATE MEMBERS PRESENT                                                       
                                                                               
  Sen. Robin Taylor, Chairman                                                  
  Sen. Rick Halford                                                            
  Sen. Suzanne Little                                                          
                                                                               
  SENATE MEMBERS ABSENT                                                        
                                                                               
  Sen. Dave Donley                                                             
  Sen. George Jacko                                                            
                                                                               
  OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                    
                                                                               
  Rep. Jerry Mackie                                                            
  Rep. David Finkelstein                                                       
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
  Confirmation Hearings - Public Members of the Select                         
  Committee on Legislative Ethics                                              
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
  SHIRLEY A. MCCOY                                                             
  P.O. Box 33475                                                               
  Juneau, Alaska 99803                                                         
  Phone:  780-6400                                                             
  Position Statement:  Nominee                                                 
                                                                               
  VIRGINIA M. JOHNSON, DVM                                                     
  12531 Old Seward Highway                                                     
  Anchorage, Alaska 99515                                                      
  Phone:  344-4324                                                             
  Position Statement:  Nominee                                                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-23, SIDE A                                                           
                                                                               
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  The Joint Senate and House Judiciary Committee meeting was                   
  called to order at 4:12 p.m. on February 25, 1993.  A quorum                 
  was not present; consequently, a work session was called                     
  until a quorum was obtained.                                                 
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked Shirley McCoy to come forward and                      
  address the committee.  He asked her to offer an opening                     
  statement.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 032                                                                   
                                                                               
  SHIRLEY MCCOY said that she assumed that the committee would                 
  want to know why she had applied to be on the Select                         
  Committee on Legislative Ethics.  She noted that she,                        
  herself, was wondering that at the moment.  She spoke about                  
  her decision making experience as a member of the Sitka                      
  school board.  She noted that since she had moved to Juneau                  
  several years earlier, she had not been involved in                          
  community or political activities in any way.                                
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY stated that when she saw an advertisement                         
  requesting applications for the public member seats on the                   
  Select Committee on Legislative Ethics, she felt that it was                 
  time for her to become involved again.  She said she was                     
  particularly drawn to the Ethics Committee, as it was a                      
  nonpartisan body.                                                            
                                                                               
  Number 060                                                                   
                                                                               
  SEN. LITTLE thanked Mrs. McCoy for applying to serve on the                  
  committee.  She asked Mrs. McCoy if she would have any                       
  difficulty spending time in Juneau for Ethics Committee                      
  business.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 080                                                                   
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY said that the fact that she lived in Juneau would                 
  make her participation in committee business easy.                           
                                                                               
  Number 087                                                                   
                                                                               
  SEN. LITTLE said that she erroneously thought that Mrs.                      
  McCoy still resided in Sitka.                                                
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY explained that she had lived in Sitka for 27                      
  years prior to moving to Juneau approximately three years                    
  earlier.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 087                                                                   
                                                                               
  SEN. LITTLE asked Mrs. McCoy if she had experience in the                    
  past dealing with the tremendous media pressure that the                     
  Ethics Committee members would probably endure.                              
                                                                               
  Number 095                                                                   
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY responded that she had experience dealing with                    
  the press, although perhaps not to the extent that she might                 
  experience as a member of the Ethics Committee.  She cited                   
  her tenure on the Sitka school board, during which she was                   
  responsible for making statements to the press on behalf of                  
  the board.  She said that she tried to make sure that her                    
  statements to the press were not anything that she would                     
  mind hearing repeated elsewhere.                                             
                                                                               
  Number 111                                                                   
                                                                               
  SEN. LITTLE inquired as to whether Mrs. McCoy had formed any                 
  decisions on recent ethics allegations against legislators.                  
                                                                               
  Number 122                                                                   
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY said that she had not.  She commented that she                    
  had read early news releases on the subject, but felt that                   
  the Ethics Committee would respond to the allegations, and                   
  that they therefore did not concern her.                                     
                                                                               
  Number 128                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. BRIAN PORTER asked if Mrs. McCoy had received any                       
  telephone calls from the press regarding her assessment of                   
  the ethics allegations.                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 134                                                                   
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY said that she had received several calls from the                 
  media.  She added that she had responded to one of those                     
  calls.                                                                       
                                                                               
  REP. PORTER asked Mrs. McCoy about the general content of                    
  her response.                                                                
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY said that she had been asked if she had any                       
  concerns about her confirmation.  She said that her reply                    
  had been that she had never bought or sold any ivory nor had                 
  she employed any illegal baby-sitters, so she saw no problem                 
  in getting confirmed.                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 153                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PORTER asked Mrs. McCoy if she had been asked about the                 
  specific allegations against certain legislators.                            
                                                                               
  Number 157                                                                   
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY said that she recalled being asked how she would                  
  respond to an inquiry about those allegations.  Her response                 
  was that at the time she read newspaper stories about the                    
  allegations, she felt that it was none of her concern and                    
  therefore did not spend much time thinking about it.                         
                                                                               
  Number 164                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PORTER noted that Mrs. McCoy had listed Rep. Ben                        
  Grussendorf as a reference on her resume.  He asked Mrs.                     
  McCoy if she were on the Ethics Committee and a complaint                    
  were filed against Rep. Grussendorf, could she make an                       
  impartial decision?                                                          
                                                                               
  Number 175                                                                   
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY said that she would have no problem being fair in                 
  such a circumstance.  She noted that the people that she                     
  listed as references, specifically Rep. Grussendorf and                      
  former Sen. Dick Eliason, were not close personal friends.                   
  However, because of their standing in the community of Sitka                 
  and her long-term residency and community involvement in                     
  Sitka, she felt that they could vouch for her background and                 
  qualifications.                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 187                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT said that he was pleased that Mrs. McCoy had                       
  applied to be on the Ethics Committee.  He asked her if she                  
  had any close economic associations or personal friendships                  
  with anyone associated with state government.                                
                                                                               
  Number 197                                                                   
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY said that an attorney who was a registered                        
  lobbyist contracted with her employer and had also been                      
  retained by her and her husband.                                             
                                                                               
  Number 204                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PHILLIPS asked Mrs. McCoy how she had learned of the                    
  Ethics Committee and the process for applying to serve on                    
  it.  She also asked if Mrs. McCoy had spoken with any                        
  legislators regarding an appointment to the committee before                 
  or at the time of her application.                                           
                                                                               
  Number 213                                                                   
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY said that she had seen a newspaper advertisement                  
  seeking applications from members of the public who wanted                   
  to serve on the Ethics Committee.  She said that she decided                 
  that, having been uninvolved in community and political                      
  activities for three years, it was time to get involved                      
  again.                                                                       
                                                                               
  REP. PHILLIPS again asked if Mrs. McCoy had spoken with any                  
  legislators.                                                                 
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY replied that she had not.                                         
                                                                               
  Number 223                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PHILLIPS asked Mrs. McCoy if she felt that legislators                  
  should be held to a higher standard than a doctor, a                         
  plumber, or a cab driver.                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 231                                                                   
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY noted that she thought that they should not be                    
  held to a higher standard, but she felt that the public                      
  perceived that they should be.  She gave an example of                       
  herself and her pastor, saying that her standards ought to                   
  be the same as her pastor's, but people held individuals in                  
  leadership positions to a higher standard.                                   
                                                                               
  Number 241                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. DAVIDSON asked if Mrs. McCoy were aware of how many                     
  public member nominees had gone before her in the selection                  
  process.                                                                     
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY indicated that she had been paying attention to                   
  the selection process.                                                       
                                                                               
  REP. DAVIDSON asked if Mrs. McCoy thought that there was                     
  anything unethical about the manner in which the legislature                 
  had dealt with nominees to the Select Committee on                           
  Legislative Ethics.                                                          
                                                                               
  Number 254                                                                   
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY commented that she did not think the legislature                  
  was acting in an unethical manner.  She cited a recent                       
  statement by the speaker of the House in which she had said                  
  that the legislature wanted people who would do the best job                 
  and who were qualified to make decisions about legislators'                  
  futures and presents.                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 264                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. DAVIDSON asked Mrs. McCoy if she believed that any                      
  nominees who were qualified were rejected for one reason or                  
  another.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 269                                                                   
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY indicated that when she heard of the nominees who                 
  were rejected because they were state employees, she felt                    
  that it was unfortunate that the applicants were not told                    
  up-front that their employment in state government would                     
  cause their rejection.  She noted that she could see where                   
  their status as state employees could be a conflict of                       
  interest, however.                                                           
                                                                               
  Number 281                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. DAVIDSON stated that he understood Mrs. McCoy to say                    
  that the legislature had been unfair to appointees by not                    
  indicating that there were unspecified preconditions                         
  regarding their appointment or rejection.                                    
                                                                               
  Number 287                                                                   
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY replied that she did not think that the                           
  legislature had been unfair.  However, she said that it was                  
  unfortunate that the conflict of interest of state employees                 
  was not thought of before the confirmation process was                       
  underway.  She noted that the ethics law, the committee, and                 
  the process for selecting committee members were all new,                    
  and as such, unanticipated circumstances were bound to                       
  arise.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 292                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. DAVIDSON asked Mrs. McCoy if she, as a citizen of the                   
  state of Alaska who felt qualified to judge the ethical                      
  behavior of anyone in the legislature, had no problem with                   
  the process.                                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 299                                                                   
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY said that she did not see the process for                         
  selecting public members as an ethical issue.  She                           
  reiterated that she did not have a problem with the way the                  
  selection process was occurring.                                             
                                                                               
  Number 303                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. NORDLUND commented that Mrs. McCoy was currently                        
  registered as a Republican and was a former Democrat.  He                    
  asked if her party affiliation had any bearing on her                        
  ability to effectively serve on the Ethics Committee.                        
                                                                               
  Number 308                                                                   
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY said that she did not view her party affiliation                  
  as an impediment to effectively serving on the committee.                    
                                                                               
  Number 319                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN TAYLOR thanked Mrs. McCoy for appearing before the                  
  committee.  He noted Mrs. McCoy's lengthy employment with                    
  the Dawson Construction Company.  Sen. Taylor said that he                   
  held her employer, Mr. Dawson, in high regard and he felt                    
  that Mrs. McCoy's lengthy association with Mr. Dawson                        
  indicated that she was a person of the same caliber.                         
                                                                               
  Number 352                                                                   
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY thanked Sen. Taylor for his comments.  She added                  
  that Mr. Dawson was very supportive of her application to                    
  serve on the Ethics Committee.                                               
                                                                               
  Number 360                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked Mrs. McCoy to tell the committee about                 
  some of her life experiences.                                                
                                                                               
  Number 371                                                                   
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY stated that her experience serving on the Sitka                   
  school board was probably her only experience that would                     
  come close to what her tenure on the Ethics Committee would                  
  be like.  She noted that after completing her first term on                  
  the school board she felt proud of the decisions that she                    
  had made and the rapport that she had established with                       
  teachers, despite her not being a supporter of the teachers'                 
  union.  She noted that she won both her races handily,                       
  despite the fact that she was running against several other                  
  candidates.                                                                  
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY said that it had been gratifying to have such                     
  strong support from the public.  She indicated her belief                    
  that the support stemmed from her reputation as an up-front,                 
  honest school board member.  She mentioned that in six years                 
  of service on the school board she had only missed one                       
  meeting.  She said that she probably never cast a surprise                   
  vote, as people always knew where she stood on an issue.                     
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY said that she had often voted against the                         
  teachers' union, but she still enjoyed strong support from                   
  the teachers in Sitka.  She expressed her opinion that it                    
  was not so much the decision that a person made, but how                     
  that decision was arrived at, in terms of how the public                     
  perceived elected officials.                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 410                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked Mrs. McCoy if she had a sense of the                   
  term "ethical conduct" as compared to "criminal conduct" or                  
  "immoral conduct."                                                           
                                                                               
  Number 421                                                                   
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY said that ethical conduct and moral conduct were                  
  closely linked.  However, she noted that when discussing                     
  ethical situations, oftentimes only a particular act was                     
  discussed.  She expressed her belief that ethics did not                     
  stop with the performance of an act.  Part of ethics was the                 
  way in which a person addressed an act after it had been                     
  committed, she added.                                                        
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY noted that it might be unethical to speed, but                    
  many people did it, sometimes without realizing what they                    
  were doing.  When caught, she added, people paid the                         
  consequences for their actions.  She said that speeding was                  
  an unethical act because it was illegal.  However, she                       
  noted, speeding did not make someone a bad person.  She                      
  commented that every person could look back and see                          
  unethical behavior in their pasts.  But, how those past                      
  experiences shaped people's lives was probably more                          
  important than the act itself, she said.                                     
                                                                               
  Number 452                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked Mrs. McCoy if she had read the ethics                  
  law.                                                                         
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY said that she had read most of the law.                           
                                                                               
  Number 458                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN TAYLOR commented that there seemed to be                            
  significant questions on almost every provision of the new                   
  law.  He noted that those questions would probably only be                   
  resolved by working under the law and through the                            
  interpretations of the Ethics Committee members.  He asked                   
  Mrs. McCoy if she had experience in interpreting laws.                       
                                                                               
  Number 466                                                                   
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY said that during her tenure on the school board,                  
  she had been very active in rewriting the board's policy                     
  manual.  She noted that laws and policies always looked more                 
  complicated before they were broken down into individual                     
  paragraphs or lines.  She expressed an opinion that any                      
  person of normal intelligence and with an average sense of                   
  right and wrong would be able to handle the ethics law.                      
                                                                               
  Number 482                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. DAVIDSON asked Mrs. McCoy which parts of the ethics law                 
  she had not yet read.                                                        
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY said that she had probably read everything except                 
  for the last page.                                                           
                                                                               
  Number 486                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. DAVIDSON asked Mrs. McCoy to rate her own ethical                       
  level, on a scale of 1 through 10, with 10 being the highest                 
  level.                                                                       
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY said that she would rank herself as an 8-1/2.                     
                                                                               
  Number 490                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. DAVIDSON inquired as to whether Mrs. McCoy's process                    
  for arriving at decisions would be different if she served                   
  on the Ethics Committee than it had been during her tenure                   
  on the school board, and if so, how?                                         
                                                                               
  Number 502                                                                   
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY responded that her decision-making process would                  
  remain the same.  She would gather all pertinent                             
  information, researching background, spending time to                        
  evaluate, digesting material, and finally making a decision                  
  based on what she had seen and heard.                                        
                                                                               
  Number 509                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. MACKIE asked if Mrs. McCoy would view a charge that a                   
  legislator had been driving while intoxicated unethical?                     
                                                                               
  Number 518                                                                   
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY said that if she considered a speeding ticket                     
  unethical, she would certainly consider driving while                        
  intoxicated unethical as well.  She noted that both                          
  activities were against the law.                                             
                                                                               
  Number 523                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. MACKIE asked about Mrs. McCoy's ability to apply                        
  guidelines set forth in the ethics law, as opposed to                        
  applying her own personal code of ethics to an individual's                  
  behavior.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 536                                                                   
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY mentioned that she had once served on a jury for                  
  a manslaughter case.  She remembered thinking that it would                  
  be hard for a juror to have trouble making a decision, as                    
  the jurors were given absolute guidelines, and all the                       
  jurors had to do was to make a decision based on those                       
  guidelines.  She noted her belief that making decisions on                   
  the Ethics Committee would be a similar situation in that                    
  Ethics Committee members would make decisions based on a                     
  given set of guidelines.                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 548                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. MACKIE said he thought that the Ethics Committee would                  
  undergo a different process, as no judge would advise the                    
  committee in a step-by-step manner.  He said that committee                  
  members might be asked to read and understand the law, and                   
  then apply it to situations before the committee.  He noted                  
  his concern that Mrs. McCoy might judge a legislator's                       
  conduct according to her own personal code of ethics, in the                 
  event that the legislator's conduct was not specifically                     
  addressed in the law.                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 565                                                                   
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY said she thought that Rep. Mackie might have                      
  misunderstood her statement.  She said that she did not need                 
  a person to stand before her and explain guidelines.  It was                 
  her belief that the ethics law would serve as the guidelines                 
  for the Ethics Committee.  She noted that at times committee                 
  members would need to interpret that law, and she cited the                  
  importance of the committee working together and making                      
  decisions as a team.                                                         
                                                                               
  Number 578                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. MACKIE asked Mrs. McCoy if she would be able to put                     
  aside her own personal code of ethics and apply the ethics                   
  law to a given situation.                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 581                                                                   
                                                                               
  MRS. MCCOY said she thought that the point of a committee                    
  was to work together.                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 584                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN TAYLOR expressed his opinion that the Ethics                        
  Committee was somewhat of a star chamber, set up so that the                 
  committee would be asked to, while acting under rather vague                 
  guidelines, hire and fire an investigator, decide how far                    
  the investigator should go or not go, judge, set rules of                    
  conduct for itself and for legislators, and serve as a jury                  
  and an executioner.  He noted that these duties would be an                  
  expansion of Mrs. McCoy's past experience as a juror.                        
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN TAYLOR thanked Mrs. McCoy for appearing before the                  
  committee.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 608                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. JAMES noted that it was not necessary to ask Mrs. McCoy                 
  if spending a great deal of time in Juneau would be an                       
  infringement upon her time.                                                  
                                                                               
  SEN. LITTLE indicated that she had asked Mrs. McCoy that                     
  question anyway, just for the record.                                        
                                                                               
  Number 616                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked Virginia Johnson to come forward and                   
  offer an opening statement.  He commented that he had heard                  
  many nice things about Ms. Johnson.                                          
                                                                               
  Number 629                                                                   
                                                                               
  VIRGINIA JOHNSON said that she was a veterinarian from                       
  Anchorage.  She stated that she was not a political person,                  
  having never worked on any campaigns.  She indicated that                    
  she was nonpartisan.  Ms. Johnson explained that she had                     
  seen a newspaper advertisement requesting applications from                  
  members of the public interested in serving on the Ethics                    
  Committee.  As a nonpartisan, she felt that service on the                   
  Ethics Committee would be a good way to become involved in                   
  state service.                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 647                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PORTER asked Ms. Johnson if she had formed any opinions                 
  about recent allegations against members of the legislature.                 
  He also asked if she had made any comments to the media                      
  about those allegations.                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 653                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON said that she had formed no opinions on the                      
  matters.  She commented that she believed that the media                     
  represented one person's opinion of what he or she had                       
  heard.  She added that she had not spoken to any member of                   
  the press about the allegations.  She said that she received                 
  a telephone call from a member of the press, but felt that                   
  it would be inappropriate to comment.                                        
                                                                               
  Number 666                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PORTER asked Ms. Johnson if she were aware that, as a                   
  member of the Ethics Committee, she would be applying not                    
  her own personal code of ethics, but the code of ethics                      
  outlined in statute and the interpretation of that code.                     
                                                                               
  Number 672                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON said that she understood that.  She noted that                   
  she had not yet read the ethics law, as she felt that it                     
  would not be appropriate to read the law prior to appearing                  
  before the committee.  She added that she would understand                   
  the law thoroughly if she were confirmed as a member of the                  
  Select Committee on Legislative Ethics.                                      
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON stated that she thought of ethics as guidelines,                 
  or codes, that were given to various people, including                       
  doctors and lawyers.  Codes of ethics were not all the same,                 
  she noted.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 686                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PORTER asked Ms. Johnson if she had engaged in any                      
  other form of public service.                                                
                                                                               
  Number 688                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON said that she was a member of the Veterinary                     
  Board of Examiners and the Anchorage Animal Appeals Board.                   
  She noted that the Anchorage Animal Appeals Board was                        
  similar to the Select Committee on Legislative Ethics, in                    
  terms of the need to apply specific guidelines, and not her                  
  personal code of ethics, to a situation.                                     
                                                                               
  Number 699                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PORTER asked if Ms. Johnson's service on either board                   
  would be a conflict of interest with her service on the                      
  Ethics Committee.                                                            
                                                                               
  Number 703                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON said that she had mentioned her service on the                   
  two boards to Justice Moore, who did not indicate that the                   
  board membership would be a conflict of interest.                            
                                                                               
  Number 708                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PHILLIPS thanked Ms. Johnson for appearing before the                   
  committee.  She asked if Ms. Johnson felt that the code of                   
  ethics for legislators was a higher code than the code of                    
  ethics for people in other professions.                                      
                                                                               
  Number 712                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON said that she did not believe that the code was                  
  higher, although it was different in some ways.                              
                                                                               
  Number 721                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PHILLIPS asked Ms. Johnson if she had spoken with any                   
  legislators about applying to serve on the Ethics Committee,                 
  either before or after she submitted her name to Justice                     
  Moore.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 724                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON said that on the day she was notified of her                     
  nomination, she placed a call to one Republican and one                      
  Democrat, regarding a logistical question about the                          
  confirmation hearing.  One of those legislators returned her                 
  call and briefly answered her question, she said.                            
                                                                               
  REP. PHILLIPS asked Ms. Johnson if the logistical question                   
  pertained to service on the Ethics Committee.                                
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON said that her question was in regard to the                      
  meeting currently in progress.                                               
                                                                               
  REP. PHILLIPS asked if Ms. Johnson had spoken with any                       
  legislators about an appointment to the Ethics Committee.                    
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON indicated that she had not.                                      
                                                                               
  Number 734                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PHILLIPS mentioned Ms. Johnson's earlier comment that                   
  she had not worked on any individual's campaigns.  She asked                 
  Ms. Johnson if she had ever worked on any issues campaigns.                  
                                                                               
  Number 737                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON said that she had not actively worked on any                     
  issues campaigns.                                                            
                                                                               
  Number 740                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PHILLIPS asked if Ms. Johnson perceived a problem in                    
  being in Juneau for long periods of time while serving on                    
  the Ethics Committee.                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 745                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON said that she would need to adjust her schedule,                 
  but that was not a problem.                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 748                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. MACKIE asked Ms. Johnson if she were required to file a                 
  conflict of interest statement because of her service on the                 
  Board of Veterinary Examiners.                                               
                                                                               
  Number 750                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON said that she did not believe so.                                
                                                                               
  Number 756                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. MACKIE asked if Ms. Johnson had any religious or moral                  
  beliefs that would impede her ability to apply statutory and                 
  committee guidelines to a situation before the Ethics                        
  Committee.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 764                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON said that she did not believe so.                                
                                                                               
  Number 766                                                                   
                                                                               
  SEN. LITTLE thanked Ms. Johnson for applying to serve on the                 
  Ethics Committee.  She asked if Ms. Johnson had experience                   
  in dealing with media pressure.                                              
                                                                               
  Number 772                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON said that she had an occasional experience with                  
  the press regarding animal issues.  She stated that she had                  
  the presence of mind to be careful about what she said.  She                 
  mentioned her belief that the Ethics Committee members would                 
  be held to a high standard of ethical behavior.                              
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT also thanked Ms. Johnson for appearing before the                  
  committee.  He asked her if she had any close economic or                    
  personal associations with any state employees.                              
                                                                               
  Number 789                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON said that she did not.                                           
                                                                               
  Number 791                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT noted that Ms. Johnson had changed her party                       
  affiliation last year to nonpartisan.  He asked if she had                   
  been active in any party prior to that change.                               
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON said that she had not been active in any party.                  
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT asked Ms. Johnson about her involvement with the                   
  Delta Chapter of the People Animal Connection.                               
                                                                               
  Number 797                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON commented that she had been involved in setting                  
  up the People Animal Connection in the Anchorage area.  She                  
  mentioned that the group coordinated volunteers bringing                     
  pets to various shut-in institutions.  She said the Delta                    
  Society was an international group that believed in pet                      
  bonding and pet therapy.                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 808                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT asked Ms. Johnson if she perceived a difference                    
  between unethical, immoral, and illegal behavior.                            
                                                                               
  Number 811                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON said that she did perceive a difference in those                 
  three types of behavior.  She commented that each person had                 
  her or his own morals, but everyone could sit down with a                    
  code of ethics and follow that code.  Criminal activity was                  
  what the law found to be wrong, she added.  She said that                    
  the three types of behavior were nuances of one another, but                 
  not the same thing.                                                          
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-23, SIDE B                                                           
                                                                               
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. MACKIE cited a hypothetical situation in which Ms.                      
  Johnson was serving on the Ethics Committee and had to judge                 
  the behavior of a legislator who was in favor of wolf                        
  control.  Rep. Mackie asked if she could be impartial in                     
  such a situation, in light of her obvious love of animals.                   
                                                                               
  Number 030                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON said that a legislator's stand on the wolf                       
  control issue might affect her opinion, but would not affect                 
  her ability to honestly judge that person and impartially                    
  apply the code of ethics to the situation.                                   
                                                                               
  Number 041                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. MACKIE asked Ms. Johnson if she would have a biased                     
  opinion about a legislator who was adamantly championing                     
  wolf control.                                                                
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON said that she did not think that she would be                    
  biased in that situation.                                                    
  Number 055                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if it were correct that members of the                 
  Alaska Board of Veterinary Examiners were appointed by the                   
  governor and received compensation for travel and per diem                   
  expenses.                                                                    
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON indicated that Chairman Taylor was correct.                      
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if she would consider resigning from                   
  the Board of Veterinary Examiners if her service on that                     
  board were in conflict with service on the Ethics Committee.                 
                                                                               
  Number 073                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON said that she would consider resigning from the                  
  veterinary board.                                                            
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said that he did not know if a conflict                      
  existed, but wanted to make Ms. Johnson aware that a                         
  conflict might exist.                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 084                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. FINKELSTEIN noted that any position which required a                    
  person to file a conflict of interest statement would be in                  
  conflict with service on the Ethics Committee.  However, he                  
  indicated that he did not know whether or not service on the                 
  Board of Veterinary Examiners required that a conflict of                    
  interest statement be filed, but suspected that it did not.                  
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON noted that she had never filed a conflict of                     
  interest statement.                                                          
                                                                               
  Number 102                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN TAYLOR commented that he was very impressed with                    
  Ms. Johnson's resume.  He asked Ms. Johnson to tell the                      
  committee something about her life experiences.                              
                                                                               
  Number 126                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON stated that she had not had a very difficult                     
  life.  She indicated that she had been raised in Montana and                 
  Oregon, and came to Alaska straight out of college.  She                     
  said she had worked as a medical technologist in Anchorage.                  
  However, she became bored after a few years in that line of                  
  work.  She decided to return to school and become a                          
  veterinarian.  She said that it was a difficult decision to                  
  leave a well-paying job and go outside of Alaska to return                   
  to school.                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON commented that she had never regretted going                     
  back to school, as she thoroughly loved her job.  She cited                  
  her involvement in community issues, most of which pertained                 
  to her profession.  She stated that she liked who she was,                   
  and felt that she could be an honest, unbiased, ethical                      
  person.  She noted that those qualities came into play every                 
  day in her profession.  She said that as part of her work                    
  she had to listen to clients and discern what was and was                    
  not true.  She said that she had learned that there was                      
  always more than one side to a story, and that the truth                     
  often lay somewhere in the middle.                                           
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN TAYLOR replied that he had run into similar                         
  experiences in his work as an attorney.  He questioned Ms.                   
  Johnson about her connections with anyone who had run for                    
  office, was currently running for office, or planned to run                  
  for office.                                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 203                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON said that her business partner was considering                   
  running for mayor of Anchorage, but she felt it would not                    
  affect her work on the Ethics Committee.                                     
                                                                               
  Number 205                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said that he was aware of that connection,                   
  but feared that other members of the committee might feel                    
  that Ms. Johnson had lied when responding to an earlier                      
  question that did not specifically include candidates for                    
  office.  He thanked Ms. Johnson for clarifying her response.                 
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked Ms. Johnson if she felt that there was                 
  a code of ethics to which legislators should adhere.                         
                                                                               
  Number 220                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON cited the ethics law recently passed by the                      
  legislature.                                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 222                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked Ms. Johnson if she thought that there                  
  was an inherent code of ethics that legislators should                       
  follow.                                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 226                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON said that each person had her or his own code of                 
  ethics.  She added that she believed there to be a code of                   
  ethics that legislators followed.  She noted that citizens                   
  of Alaska had the perception that unethical behavior                         
  occurred in the legislature.  She said the new ethics law                    
  gave legislators guidelines to follow and that the Ethics                    
  Committee would give the public assurance that legislators'                  
  behavior was being monitored.                                                
                                                                               
  Number 261                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked Ms. Johnson if she felt that her                       
  perspective on the ethical behavior of legislators would be                  
  affected in any way by her partner's potential bid for                       
  elected office.                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 264                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON said she did not think her perspective would be                  
  affected.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 273                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT asked Ms. Johnson what her partner's name was.                     
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON said that her partner's name was Joyce Murphy.                   
                                                                               
  Number 281                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT asked Ms. Johnson if she were in partnership                       
  solely with Ms. Murphy, or if there were other individuals                   
  involved in the practice.                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 284                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON replied that she and Ms. Murphy owned the                        
  practice together, but there were other non-owner                            
  veterinarians involved in the practice.                                      
                                                                               
  Number 289                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT told Ms. Johnson that service on the Ethics                        
  Committee could entail spending long periods of time in                      
  Juneau.  He said that he wanted to make sure that she was                    
  aware of the commitment required.                                            
                                                                               
  Number 297                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON further explained how her veterinary practice                    
  operated.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 300                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. DAVIDSON commented that elected officials faced unique                  
  situations and dilemmas.  He asked Ms. Johnson how she                       
  planned to learn about the uniqueness of legislators.                        
                                                                               
  Number 322                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON noted that although she could never be in a                      
  legislator's shoes, it was possible that the Ethics                          
  Committee would come under the same scrutiny that                            
  legislators endured.  She said that she would listen to the                  
  legislators themselves and hear testimony.  She added that                   
  she did not know any legislators personally, and therefore                   
  did not know what their lives were like.                                     
                                                                               
  Number 341                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. DAVIDSON described a hypothetical situation and asked                   
  Ms. Johnson if she believed that the elected officials                       
  involved acted in an ethical manner.  The situation involved                 
  a public member nominee to the Ethics Committee, whom a                      
  legislator had succeeded in rejecting, based on the                          
  nominee's business or personal linkage with another                          
  individual.                                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 369                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON responded that she did not believe that the                      
  legislator's behavior in that situation was unethical.  She                  
  said that she would be presupposing that legislator's                        
  thoughts, and that there might be something else about the                   
  nominee that the legislator found unacceptable.  She said                    
  that she would need to hear all of the facts before making a                 
  judgment about the ethicalness of certain behavior.                          
                                                                               
  Number 380                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PHILLIPS asked Ms. Johnson why she felt that it was                     
  necessary for there to be an ethics law and an Ethics                        
  Committee.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 384                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON said that the need existed because of the                        
  public's perception of unethical behavior in the                             
  legislature.  She reiterated her opinion that the law would                  
  give legislators guidelines to follow, and the committee                     
  would reassure the public.                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 403                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PHILLIPS commented that the public always had the final                 
  say in the voting booth.                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 406                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. MACKIE asked Ms. Johnson if she had ever felt, or felt                  
  now, that legislators were unethical.                                        
                                                                               
  Number 408                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON said that she did not feel that way now, nor had                 
  she in the past.                                                             
                                                                               
  Number 409                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT asked Ms. Johnson if she, as a single woman, would                 
  be able to judge male elected officials fairly, given that                   
  the legislature was dominated by males.                                      
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON said that she could be fair toward men.                          
                                                                               
  Number 426                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. FINKELSTEIN commented that when he watched the House                    
  leadership at work, he forgot that there was any male                        
  domination in the House.                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 438                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said that the Ethics Committee might be                      
  faced with complaints motivated solely by political or                       
  vengeful purposes.  He asked Ms. Johnson if she were aware                   
  of that potential situation.                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 453                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON replied that she was aware that purely political                 
  and vengeful complaints might come before the committee.                     
                                                                               
  Number 459                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. MACKIE mentioned that both nominees that had appeared                   
  before the committee that day had been very candid, and he                   
  appreciated that candor.  He asked Ms. Johnson if she saw                    
  her service on the Ethics Committee as similar to her                        
  veterinary practice, in that while doing surgery on an                       
  animal, she would investigate a problem and only take out                    
  what needed to be taken out, leaving the good parts intact.                  
                                                                               
  Number 469                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON said that Rep. Mackie had made a good analogy.                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked Ms. Johnson if gender balance were                     
  relevant to the issue.                                                       
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON said that it was not relevant.                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said that it was not relevant in his                         
  opinion, either.  He thanked Ms. Johnson for appearing                       
  before the committee.                                                        
                                                                               
  ADJOURNMENT                                                                  
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN TAYLOR adjourned the meeting at 5:21 p.m.                           

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